Thanks And Acknowledgements

My thanks go to Kent Libraries and Archives - Folkestone Library and also to the archive of the Folkestone Herald. For articles from the Folkestone Observer, my thanks go to the Kent Messenger Group. Southeastern Gazette articles are from UKPress Online, and Kentish Gazette articles are from the British Newspaper Archive. See links below.

Paul Skelton`s great site for research on pubs in Kent is also linked

Other sites which may be of interest are the Folkestone and District Local History Society, the Kent History Forum, Christine Warren`s fascinating site, Folkestone Then And Now, and Step Short, where I originally found the photo of the bomb-damaged former Langton`s Brewery, links also below.


Welcome

Welcome to Even More Tales From The Tap Room.

Core dates and information on licensees tenure are taken from Martin Easdown and Eamonn Rooney`s two fine books on the pubs of Folkestone, Tales From The Tap Room and More Tales From The Tap Room - unfortunately now out of print. Dates for the tenure of licensees are taken from the very limited editions called Bastions Of The Bar and More Bastions Of The Bar, which were given free to very early purchasers of the books.

Easiest navigation of the site is by clicking on the PAGE of the pub you are looking for and following the links to the different sub-pages. Using the LABELS is, I`m afraid, not at all user-friendly.

Contrast Note

Whilst the above-mentioned books and supplements represent an enormous amount of research over many years, it is almost inevitable that further research will throw up some differences to the published works. Where these have been found, I have noted them. This is not intended to detract in any way from previous research, but merely to indicate that (possible) new information is available.

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Saturday, 8 February 2014

Lord Nelson 1910s


Folkestone Daily News 13-2-1913
Annual Licensing Sessions
 
The Licensing Bench on Wednesday, February 12th, was constituted as follows: Messrs. Ward, Boyd, Leggett, Swoffer, Stainer, Herbert, Fynmore, Hamilton, and Linton.
 
The Chief Constable read his report (for which see Folkestone Express).

The Chairman said the report of the Chief Constable was very satisfactory, but the Bench were still of opinion that there were too many licensed houses in a certain portion of the town. Therefore a number would have their licences withheld until the adjourned sessions on the ground of redundancy. Formal opposition to the renewals would be served so that full enquiries could be made into the trade of these houses, with a view of referring some of them to the Compensation Authority.

The following were the licences which were held over: The Raglan, Dover Street; Oddfellows, Dover Street; Royal Oak, North Street; Isle of Cyprus, Bayle; Lord Nelson, Radnor Street; Lifeboat, North Street; Wellington, Beach Street.

Folkestone Express 15-2-1913

Annual Licensing Sessions

The Brewster Sessions were held on Wednesday morning. The Justices present were E.T. Ward Esq., Major Leggett, Lieut. Col. Fynmore, Lieut. Col. Hamilton, G. Boyd, G.I. Swoffer, R.J. Linton, and J. Stainer Esqs. Mr. Boyd and Mr. Stainer did not take part in the licensing business, not being on the committee.

The Chief Constable read his report as follows: Gentlemen, I have the honour to report that there are at present within your jurisdiction 119 places licensed for the sale of intoxicating liquor by retail, viz., Full Licences 73, Beer On 7, Beer Off 6, Beer and Spirit Dealers Off 15, Grocers, etc. Off 9, Confectioners` Wine On 3, Chemists Wine Off 5. This gives an average, according to the Census of 1911, of one licence to every 281 persons, or one on licence to every 418 persons. As compared with the return submitted last year this is a decrease of two licences. At the general annual licensing meeting last year a new licence was granted for the sale of beer off the premises at Morehall, and two other off licences were discontinued.

At the last adjourned general annual licensing meeting the renewal of the licence of the Rendezvous Hotel was referred to the Compensation Committee on the ground of redundancy, and at the meeting of that Committee on the 7th August, 1912, the licence was refused, and after payment of compensation the house was closed for the sale of drink on the 28th December last.

During the past year fifteen of the licences have been transferred; one licence was transferred twice.

Six occasional licences have been granted for the sale of drink on premises not ordinarily licensed for such sale, and 34 extensions of the usual time of closing have been granted to licence holders on special occasions.

During the year ended 31st December last 85 persons (62 males and 23 females) were proceeded against for drunkenness; 64 were convicted and 21 discharged.

In the preceding year 54 males and 31 females were proceeded against, of whom 66 were convicted and 19 discharged.

The number convicted of drunkenness last year, viz., 46 males and 18 females, is, I find, the smallest number convicted in any year since 1896.

Of those proceeded against, 31 were residents of the Borough, 34 were persons of no fixed abode, 13 residents of other districts and seven were soldiers.

No conviction has been recorded against any licence holder during the past year. Proceedings were taken against the holder of an off licence for a breach of the closing regulations, but the case was dismissed.

Eleven clubs where intoxicating liquor is sold are registered in accordance with the Act of 1902.

There are 17 places licensed for music and dancing, eight for music only, and two for public billiard playing.

I have no complaint to make as to the conduct of any of the licensed houses, and offer no opposition to the renewal of any of the present licences on the ground of misconduct.

The Chairman said it was a very satisfactory report indeed, but they felt that there were still too many licensed houses, particularly in certain portions of the Borough, and the Justices would direct that a certain number of the applications for renewal should be deferred till the Adjourned Sessions, so that they might have evidence as to the trade those houses were doing, and decide whether any of them ought to be referred to the Compensation Authority.

The houses to be dealt with were seven in number, namely; the Raglan Tavern, the Oddfellows, the Royal Oak, the Isle of Cyprus, the Lord Nelson, the Lifeboat, and the Wellington.

With those exceptions the existing licences were granted.

Folkestone Herald 15-2-1913
Annual Licensing Sessions

Wednesday, February 12
th: Before Mr. E.T. Ward, Lieut. Col. Fynmore, Lieut. Col. Hamilton, Major Leggett, Mr. W.G. Herbert, Mr. J. Stainer, and Mr. G. Boyd.
The Chief Constable presented his annual report (for which see Folkestone Express).

The Chairman remarked that the report was a very satisfactory one, but, in the opinion of the Bench, there were still too many public houses in certain portions of the town, and they would defer the renewal of certain of the licences to the adjourned sessions, so that they might have evidence as to what trade they were doing, and see if any of them were to be referred to the compensation authority.

The licensees of the Raglan Tavern, the Oddfellows, Dover Street, the Royal Oak, North Street, the Isle of Cyprus, the Lord Nelson, the Lifeboat, and the Wellington were called forward.

The Chairman said the renewal of the licences of those public houses would be deferred until the adjourned licensing sessions, and notice of opposition would be served in the meantime on the ground of redundancy. The Chief Constable would be directed to serve the notices.

The licences of all the other houses were then renewed.


Folkestone Daily News 10-3-1913
Adjourned Licensing Sessions

Monday, March 10th: Before Messrs. Ward, Hamilton, Stainer, Herbert, Harrison, Morrison, Linton, Boyd, Stace, Jenner, and Giles.
There was again a large crowd in Court on Monday morning, when the fate of 7 licensed houses (referred for redundancy) hung in the balance.

At the commencement of the proceedings the Chief Constable said the Bench had to consider the seven licences adjourned from the annual sessions on the ground of redundancy. He invited the Bench to hear the evidence in regard to such houses separately and give a decision after hearing all the evidence.

The Lord Nelson

In the case of the Lord Nelson and the Lifeboat (Messrs. Ash and Co.), Mr. Arrowsmith (barrister) appeared to show cause for the re-granting of the licence.

The Chief Constable gave statistics, and said that the present licence holder was William James Monk, and the rateable value of the house was £24. The house was situate in Radnor Street – a street about 181 yards long. There were 51 houses in the street, five being fully licensed houses. The house was entered from the street by two doors leading into two compartments. Behind there was a bar parlour opening on to the front bar and also by a window overlooking the back yard. The back yard had also an approach to the licensed premises. The trade of the house appeared to him (the Chief Constable) to be small, and he considered it to be the least suitable house for licensed premises, and he further considered it unnecessary. Since 1902 the present tenant was the fifth.

By Mr. Arrowsmith: The Star, Marquis of Lorne and Railway Tavern had been closed since he (the Chief) had been there. Others had been closed previously.

Inspector Swift gave evidence of the unsuitability of the premises, and said that in 1907 (sic) on a Sunday morning he saw 97 persons served from the back window.

By Mr. Arrowsmith: He had not had any complaints since.

Mr. Monk, the licensee, said the trade of the house kept about the same average; the trade was principally with fishermen and the people from the lodging houses, and a good summer trade. In the summer he let rooms and provided lunches.

Mr. C. Moxon (Ash & Co.) deposed that the licence was acquired by his firm in 1849; the house had held a licence since 1829. The rent of the house was £20. For several years the average trade per annum was 235 barrels; the spirit trade 50 gallons in the year. The house was in very good condition. The firm had lost the Marquis of Lorne, the Star, Blue Anchor, Railway Inn, and the Welcome during the last few years. Compensation was paid in all cases excepting the last. He had heard of the complaint referred to by Inspector Swift, 15 years ago, and there had been no complaint since.

Mr. Councillor Jones was called by Mr. Arrowsmith, and he said he had lived in the neighbourhood for 50 years and had known the Lord Nelson since 1862. He was well acquainted with the habits of the fishermen. In his opinion the house was one decidedly required for the convenience of the fishermen. In 16 years there had been an increase of 600 houses and 7 licensed houses decreased in that area. These houses in the market were not used so much for drink as in the nature of clubs where they discussed the requirements of the market. Again there was a large number of steam trawlers from the west coast. The house had always been found useful for fishermen for the purpose of sharing, and the conduct of business. The house was an exceedingly quiet one.

By the Chief Constable: The whole of the area up to the Thanet Gardens he included in the increase of houses built. The whole area in fair proportion used the houses in the fishmarket. He said emphatically that it would be cruel to take the licence away from the enjoyment of the fishermen. He spoke as a teetotaller and from a conscientious point of view.
The Bench retired at 4 p.m., and returned at 4.10, the Chairman announcing that the Lord Nelson and the Isle of Cyprus would be referred to Canterbury and the other five licences would be renewed.

Folkestone Express 15-3-1913

Adjourned Licensing Sessions

At the annual licensing sessions seven licences were deferred to the adjourned sessions, which were held at the Town Hall on Monday. The Magistrates on the Bench were E.T. Ward Esq., Lieut. Col. Hamilton, Alderman Jenner, and W.G. Herbert, J. Stainer, R.J. Linton, G. Boyd, W.J. Harrison, J.J. Giles, E.T. Morrison and A. Stace Esqs.

Mr. Jennings, of Canterbury, presented plans for alterations at the Oddfellows Arms, in Radnor Street, and they were approved of.

The Magistrates agreed to the transfer of the following licences: The South Foreland, to Mrs. Jordan, and the Clarence Hotel to Mr. Mooring.

The Lord Nelson

The renewal of the licence of the Lord Nelson was first considered. Mr. Arrowsmith, of Canterbury, appeared for the owners and licensee.

Mr. H. Reeve, the Chief Constable, said he would first put in a plan of the congested area. The area commenced at the Harbour corner, up the steps to the Bayle, along the top of High Street, Rendezvous Street, Dover Road, to the Raglan, and then across Radnor Bridge Road to the sea. That embraced the whole of the old portion of the borough. Within that area there were 841 houses, giving a population approximately of 4,205 persons, reckoning five to a house. There were 30 “On” houses – 26 full and four beer on. There were also seven other premises licensed, making a total of 37 houses for the sale of drink by retail, giving an average of one licence to every 113 persons, and one on licence to every 140. Taking the borough alone they had 117 premises licensed for the sale of drink. The proportion was one licence to 286 persons. Of those 117 houses, 73 were full licences and 7 beer on, making a total of 80, and one on licence to every 418 persons. There were also in that area three registered clubs, with a membership of 1,904. During the last year he found that of the 85 charges of drunkenness dealt with by the justices, 46 of them arose in that small area. He put in the formal notice of objection to the renewal of the licence of the Lord Nelson, and the objection was that the licence was not needed for the requirements of the neighbourhood. The present licensee was William James Monk,, who obtained the transfer of the house in May, 1912. The registered owners were Messrs. Ash and Co., Canterbury, and the rateable value was £24. The house was situate in Radnor Street, just behind the Fish Market. Radnor Street was about 180 yards long. There were 51 houses in the street, five of them being fully licensed houses. The house was next door to the Radnor common lodging house. There were two doors entering from the street into a bar, which was divided by a partition 6ft. 3in. in height. Behind there was a bar parlour, with a window overlooking the backyard. From the bar parlour there were six steps leading to the backyard, where there were two stores for fish boxes, and which were let to two tenants, and there was also a door leading from the back of the cottage, No. 8, Radnor Street. The windows of the lodging house opened in the yard from the ground floor, and there was also a door leading from the house in the yard. The door had not apparently been opened for some time. The Jubilee was the next public house, 45 yards further down, on the same side of the street, and the rateable value was £32. The Wonder Tavern, in Beach Street, opposite the end of Radnor Street, was 50 yards, and of the rateable value of £36. The other licensed houses in the street were the Oddfellows, the rateable value of which was £32; the Ship, £32; and the Packet Boat, £30. That house was, as they would see, the lowest rated public house in the area. Within a radius of 15o yards there were 18 other on licensed premises – 15 fully licensed and three beer on. The trade of that house appeared to have been small, and he considered the premises to be the least suitable for licensed premises of any house in Radnor Street. The backway, which opened to the Fish Market through a narrow archway, made it very difficult to give it proper and efficient police supervision for the conduct of the premises. He considered the licence to be unnecessary for the needs and requirements of the neighbourhood. If the licence was taken away there would be ample accommodation to supply the customers who used the house. Since 1902 the present licensee was the fifth.

Cross-examined, Mr. Reeve said there had been three other licensed houses taken away during the last few years.

Inspector Swift said he had known the house for 30 years. His experience was that the premises were very difficult to supervise efficiently. In 1897 he kept observation on the premises between seven and eight until 1.30, and he saw 70 persons served from the window in the back yard.

Mr. Monk said he had been in the house for 12 months. He was making a trade. At the present time trade was about the same, keeping the same average. His business was chiefly with fishermen and men from lodging houses. In the summer they got visitors from the Warren, and he let rooms and served lunches.

Cross-examined by the Chief Constable, he said he used his own living room, which was licensed, as the place where he served lunches.

Mr. C. Moxon, Manager to Messrs. Ash and Co., said the house was acquired in 1849, and it had been licensed since 1828. The rent of the house was £20. The trade of the house in beer in seven years averaged 235 barrels, and in the last three years it had averaged 234. The spirit trade averaged just over 50 gallons during each of the last three years. He thought the house was in very good condition for old property. They had other houses in the street, two of which had gone. Three others on the other side of the arch had gone. Those five houses had gone for compensation. Their last tenant, Champion, left owing to bad health and domestic troubles. Their previous change was in 1908. They had had no complaint for the last 15 years against the house. The backyard was a public yard.

Cross-examined, witness said that house was their last one left in the street. The True Briton was a good step from Radnor Street. That was their property. He did not consider there were too many houses in the congested area. He thought the Justices should stay their hand, as he considered they had closed sufficient. All the houses were getting a living.

Mr. J. Jones said he had known the house since 1862, and had used it. He considered the Lord Nelson was required more than any house by the fishermen because they could get so easily to the backyard. The fishing trade had increased while the houses in that neighbourhood had decreased by seven. They wanted the hoses to discuss the fishing business.
 
Folkestone Herald 15-3-1913

Adjourned Licensing Sessions

The adjourned Annual Folkestone Licensing Sessions were held at the Police Court on Monday, when the licences of the seven houses deferred at the Annual General Sessions came up for hearing. Mr. E.T. Ward was in the chair, and he was supported by Mr. W.G. Herbert, Lieut. Colonel C.J. Hamilton, Mr. J. Stainer, Mr. R.J. Linton, Mr. G. Boyd, Alderman C. Jenner, Captain Chamier, Mr. J.J. Giles, Councillor W.J. Harrison, Mr. E.T. Morrison and Councillor A. Stace.

The Lord Nelson

Mr. Arrowsmih, of Canterbury, appeared on behalf of the brewers, Messrs. Ash and Co., of Canterbury, in support of the licence of the Lord Nelson, which had been deferred.

The Chief Constable (Mr. H. Reeve) drew the attention of the Magistrates first to a plan on which he had marked out the congested area on a new line. That new line they saw commenced at the Harbour corner, went up the Bayle Steps to The Bayle, along the top of High Street, and Dover Road, to the Raglan Hotel corner, and along Radnor Bridge Road to the sea. That embraced all the old portion of the Borough. Within that area there were 841 houses, giving a population, approximately, of 4,205 persons, reckoning five per house. There were thirty on-licensed public houses within the area, twenty six being fully licensed, and four beer on. There were also seven other premises licensed, making a total of thirty seven premises licensed for the sale of drink by retail, giving a proportion of one licence to every 113 persons, and one on licence to every 140. Taking the Borough as a whole, they had at present 117 premises licensed for the sale of drink, and he would like to say in passing that this was a decrease of two as shown in his report at the General Licensing Sessions, in consequence of two of the off licences not having been renewed this year. There were now 117 premises licensed altogether, giving a proportion of one licence to every 286 persons. Of this 117, 73 were fully licensed and seven were beer on, making a total of 80 on licences for the whole Borough, and one on licence to every 418 persons, according to the Census of 1911, when the population of the Borough was 33, 495. There was also within the congested area three registered clubs, with a total membership of 1,904. During the past year he found that out of 85 cases of drunkenness dealt with by the Borough Bench, 46 arose in this small area.

Referring to the Lord Nelson, Mr. Reeve stated that formal notice of objection had been served that the licence was not needed for the requirements of the neighbourhood. The present licensee was William James Monk, who obtained a transfer of the licence on the 15thy May, 1912. The registered owners were Messrs. Ash and Co., of Canterbury, and the rateable value of the house was £24. The house was situated in Radnor Street, behind the Fishmarket, and was on the right hand side of the street, entering from Beach Street, and next door to the Radnor common lodging house. There were two doors entering into the house from the street. The front bar was divided into two compartments by a partition 6ft. 3ins. high. Behind was a bar parlour, opening from the front bar, with a window overlooking the back yard. From this bar parlour there were six steps down to the back door, opening into the back yard. The back yard could be approached from the Fishmarket down four steps under an archway 3ft 2ins. wide. In the back yard there were two stores for fish boxes, let to two different tenants. There was also a back door opening into the yard from the next cottage, No. 8, Radnor Street. The windows of the kitchen of the Radnor lodging house next door opened into the yard on the ground floor. There was also a small door from the lodging house opening into the yard. This, when he visited the house a week or two ago, did not appear to have been used for some little time. The Jubilee was the next house in Radnor Street, forty five yards further down on the same side, and the rateable value of the Jubilee was £32. The Wonder Tavern, in Beach Street, at the opposite end of Radnor Street, was fifty yards away, and the rateable value of that house was £36. The other licensed houses in Radnor Street were the Oddfellows, with a rateable value of £32, the Ship, with a rateable value of £32, and the Packet Boat, with a rateable value of £30. The Lord Nelson was the lowest-rated house in Radnor Street. There were within a radius of 150 yards 18 other licensed premises, 15 being fully licensed and 3 beer on. The trade of this house at the present time, and for some time past, had been very small, and he considered the premises to be the least suitable for licensed premises of any of the houses in Radnor Street. The backway, which opened to the Fishmarket through this narrow archway, made it very difficult to give proper police supervision over the back of the premises. He considered the licence to be unnecessary to the needs and requirements of the neighbourhood, and if taken away there would be ample accommodation, in his opinion, to supply the customers who now used the house. The present was the fifth tenant since 1902.

Cross-examined by Mr. Arrowsmith, the Chief Constable stated that since he had been in Folkestone three licences had been taken away in that neighbourhood.

Inspector Swift said he had known the Lord Nelson, in Radnor Street, for thirty years; it was difficult to supervise it properly. Some years ago he had some experience of the back entrance. In consequence of complaints he kept observation on the 10
th April, 1897. He secreted himself, when he saw 70 persons served from the window at the back of the premises.
Mr. Monk, the licensee, stated that he had been in the house twelve months, and was making a trade there. The trade was not decreasing; it was about the same. He traded chiefly with the fishermen, and visitors from the Warren in the summertime. He also did a trade in lunches, and let rooms.

The Chief Constable: What accommodation have you for private lunches?

Witness replied that he had the large room leading from the bar parlour on the left.

The Chief Constable: Your own sitting room? – Yes.

In answer to the Chairman, witness stated that the back yard did not belong to him. There were two different owners.

Mr. Charles Moxon, Manager of Messrs. Ash and Co., said that the house was acquired in 1849, and it had been a licensed house since 1828; it might have been licensed before that. The rent of the house was £20, and the trade of the house during the last three years had averaged 235 barrels. The average for the last seven years was 234. His spirit trade was about a gallon per week. The average for the last three years was 50 gallons per year. The house was in very good condition so far as repairs were concerned. It was old property. They had five other houses in the district some years back, but now they had gone. With regard to the last tenant, he left because of domestic troubles and ill-health. Otherwise he had reason to believe he would be there now. There had only been one change since 1908.

Cross-examined by the Chief Constable, witness stated that although some of the houses had gone there were still others left. He did not consider there were too many houses, and he did not say there were too few.

The Chief Constable stated that he had no complaint to make against the conduct of the house.

Councillor John Jones said he had lived in the neighbourhood for fifty years, and had known the house since 1862, and had used it. He said decidedly that the house was required. Folkestone had about 100 to 110 fishing boats, and he should say that there was a working population of between 400 and 500 in the fishmarket, giving an average of about 100 per house. The accommodation was not sufficient. He characterised it as being riven out of their old home, and their little institution, when they met for business matters.

Cross-examined by the Chief Constable, Mr. Jones said the house was not used so much for drinking as for little suppers, and he said it would be a cruel shame if these facilities for meeting were done away with.

The Chief Constable drew attention to the fact that a licence was not needed for the purpose of holding suppers.
Mr. Arrowsmith, in his address to the Justices, said the trade of the Lifeboat was two barrels a week. The place was in splendid condition, and the tenant made a living out of the house, without any other business. It was, as Mr. Jones had said, a house where the more respectable members of the district met quietly and discussed local politics. He characterised the size of the trade as the worst possible argument for closing it. They went there to discuss business, and were not forced to drink beer. Turning to the Lord Nelson, he said that that was doing an exceedingly good trade. According to the landlord, he catered for lunches and let bedrooms. A great argument in its favour was the Fishmarket. He pointed out to the Justices that they had a duty to the brewer as well as to the public, and they had to licence to the requirements of the public, and it might even be to increase the number of licences. He imagined that in the future, with so many houses being taken away, it would be a question of how many new houses there would be. During the last few years Messrs. Ash had lost six out of eight houses in this district. Six had gone, and only two were left, and those two houses were now being threatened. He alluded to the detriment to the trade of the firm, and said if these two houses were closed, eight houses would be taken away in one district belonging to the same firm, and the proportion, to him, seemed to be too large. He asked that both should be renewed.

The Magistrates retired for a period to consider their decisions. On their return the Chairman said that with regard to the Lord Nelson, they had decided to refer that to Canterbury, but would grant a provisional licence for the time being.

Folkestone Daily News 8-10-1913
Wednesday, October 8th: Before Messrs. Ward, Herbert, Harrison, Vaughan, Swoffer, and Linton.
 
The licence of the Lord Nelson was transferred from William James Monk to Frank May (from Betherseden).
 
The Chief Constable said he should like to put it to the incoming tenant that this house was referred at the last sessions.
 
The Chairman: Were you aware of that?
 
Applicant: No.
 
The Chairman: Does the knowledge of that make any difference to your application?
 
Applicant: No, sir.
 
The Chairman: It is only fair to warn you. What house did you keep before? – The Royal Standard, Bethersden
 
The Chairman: How long?
 
Applicant: 14 months.

The Chairman: Had you any previous experience?
 
Applicant: Yes, in the canteen of the West Riding Regiment in South Africa.
 
The Chairman again warned the applicant of the possibilities of the future and granted the transfer.

Folkestone Herald 11-10-1913
 
Wednesday, October 8th: Before Mr. E.T. Ward, Mr. W.G. Herbert, Alderman T.J. Vaughan, Mr. G.I. Swoffer, Mr. R.J. Linton, Alderman C. Jenner, and Councillor W.J. Harrison.

Application was made for the transfer of the licence of the Lord Nelson, Radnor Street, from Mr. W.J. Monk to Mr. F. May.

The Chief Constable said he thought the incoming tenant should be reminded that at the last licensing sessions the licence of this house had been referred back.

Mr. May said he was not aware of that fact.

The Magistrates` Clerk said that point was whether that fact would alter the applicant`s attitude.

Mr. May: No, sir.

The Chairman said he wished Mr. May to understand that he might have to leave next year.

Mr. May said he quite understood this, and the transfer was granted on this understanding.


Folkestone Express 14-2-1914

Annual Licensing Sessions

Wednesday, February 11th: Before E.T. Ward, W.G. Herbert, T.J. Vaughan, J.J. Giles, G.I. Swoffer, R.G. Wood, and G. Boyd Esqs., Colonel Owen and Colonel Fynmore.

The Chief Constable presented his report as follows: Gentlemen, I have the honour to report that there are at present within your jurisdiction 116 places licensed for the sale of intoxicating liquor by retail, viz., Full licences 72, beer on 7, beer off 6, beer and spirit dealers off 15, grocers, etc. off 7, confectioners` wine on 3, chemists wine off 6, total 116. This gives an average according to the Census of 1911 of one licence to every 288 persons, or one on licence to every 423 persons.

This is a reduction of three licences as compared with the return submitted to you last year.

At the last general annual licensing meeting the renewal of two grocers` off licences were not applied for, as the sale of intoxicating liquor had been discontinued.

At the adjourned general annual meeting held on the 10th March last the licences of the Isle of Cyprus Inn, The Bayle, and the Lord Nelson Inn, Radnor Street, were referred to the Compensation Committee on the ground of redundancy. The licence of the Lord Nelson Inn was renewed at the preliminary meeting of the Compensation Committee, and the licence of the Isle of Cyprus Inn was refused at the principal meeting of the Committee held on the 9th July, and after payment of compensation the house was closed for the sale of drink on 31st December last.

During the year ended 31st December 71 persons (48 males and 23 females) were proceeded against for drunkenness of whom 49 were convicted and 22 discharged.

In the preceding year 85 persons (62 males and 23 females) were proceeded against, of whom 64 were convicted and 21 discharged.

It is very gratifying to again have to report a decrease in the cases of drunkenness, the number of persons proceeded against last year being the smallest for the last 17 years.

The decrease in the number of persons proceeded against for drunkenness in this borough is in no way due to any relaxation in the methods of the police in dealing with drunken persons, but is undoubtedly due to the improved habits of the people, which must be apparent to all by the fewer drunken persons to be seen in the streets, also the provision of cheap and popular forms of amusement, as well as the gradual decrease of facilities for obtaining drink by closing the less desirable of the public houses, together with the greater care of the licence holders in the conduct of their houses.

Of those proceeded against last year, 23 were residents of the borough, 25 persons of no fixed abode, 12 soldiers, and 11 residents of other districts.

No conviction has been recorded during the year against any licence holder for a breach of the Licensing Laws. Proceeding were taken against one hotel keeper for a breach of the closing regulations, but the case was dismissed; the licence of the house in question has since been transferred to a new tenant.

Twelve clubs where intoxicating liquor is sold are registered in accordance with the Act.

There are 17 places licensed for music and dancing, 8 for music only, and two for public billiard playing.

I offer no objection to the renewal of any of the present licences on the ground of misconduct, the houses generally being conducted in a satisfactory manner.

There are no applications for new licences to be made at these Sessions.

The Chairman said the report was extremely satisfactory, especially that portion of it which referred to the decrease of drunkenness. The Magistrates were also glad to find that the houses generally had been well conducted. With regard to the licences that day, they would all be renewed, with the exception of the Lord Nelson, the granting of which would be deferred until the adjourned meeting.

Folkestone Herald 14-2-1914

Annual Licensing Sessions

Wednesday, February 11th: Before Mr. E.T. Ward, Mr. W.G. Herbert, Aldermand T.J. Vaughan, Lieut. Colonel R.J. Fynmore, Mr. J. Stainer, Mr. G.I. Swoffer, Mr. R.J. Linton, Mr. G. Boyd, Councillor R.G. Wood, and Colonel G.P. Owen.

The Chief Constable (Mr. H. Reeve) presented his annual report. (For details see Folkestone Express).

The Chairman said they were very much obliged to the Chief Constable for his very satisfactory report. They were also very glad to find that the houses were being so well conducted. With regard to the licensing that day, all the alcohol, music, dancing, and public billiard playing licences would be renewed, with the exception of that of the Lord Nelson, the hearing with regard to which would be left to the adjourned sessions.

Folkestone Express 14-3-1914

Adjourned Licensing Sessions

Monday, March 9th: Before E.T. Ward Esq., Alderman Vaughan, Lieut. Col. Fynmore, W.G. Herbert, J. Stainer, G.I. Swoffer, R.J. Linton, G. Boyd, R.G. Wood and J.J. Giles Esqs., and Colonel Owen.

The question of whether the licence of the Lord Nelson public house should be referred to the Compensation Authority was the only business.

Mr. Arrowsmith (Canterbury) appeared on behalf of the owners (Messrs. Ash & Co.) and the tenant (Mr. Frank May), and applied for the renewal of the licence.

Mr. Reeve, the Chief Constable, put in a copy of the notice of objection, which was on the ground that the licence was not needed for the requirements of the neighbourhood. He also handed in a plan showing the district in which the public house was situate. He said the Lord Nelson was a fully licensed “on” public house, and was situate in Radnor Street. Mr. Frank May, the licensee, obtained a transfer on October 8th last. The rateable value of the house was £24. The present tenant was the sixth who had been in the house in 11½ years. Radnor Street, North Street, and East Street practically comprised the fishing quarter of the town. In that quarter there were 143 houses, including seven on licensed houses. Allowing five persons to a house there was one licence to every 102 persons in the district. For the borough at large there were 79 on licensed houses, being an average of one on licence for 423 persons. Radnor Street was about 180 yards long, and there were 51 houses in the street, five of them being fully licensed public houses. The Lord Nelson was on the right hand side of the street entering from Beach Street, and was next door to the Radnor common lodging house. There were two doors entering from the street to a front bar, which was divided into three compartments. Behind was another tap room or bar parlour, with a window overlooking the back yard. From that room there were six steps leading down to the back door of the house, which opened into the back yard. The yard was approached from the fish market by four steps, under an archway which was three feet two inches wide. In the yard there were two stores let to different tenants. There was also a back door opening into the yard from the cottage, No. 8, Radnor Street. The windows of the kitchen of the Radnor lodging house opened into the yard, and there was also a door from the lodging house opening into the yard. That door, however, appeared to be very rarely used. There was no light in the approach or in the back yard. The nearest house was the Jubilee, 45 yards down the road, and the rateable value of that was £36. The Wonder Tavern was 50 yards away, and the rateable value was also £36. The other licensed houses in Radnor Street were the Oddfellows, rateable value £32, the Ship, £32, and the Packet Boat, £30. Within a radius of 150 yards there were 18 other on licensed premises. The trade for the house appeared to him to be small, and of rather low class. He considered the premises were the least suitable of any of the houses in the street, and owing to the back entrance through that narrow archway, it was rather difficult for proper police supervision. He had no complaint as to the manner in which the house was conducted. The Jubilee, the Ship, and the Oddfellows all fronted on to the fishmarket, and their principal business was from the fishmarket.

Cross-examined, Mr. Reeve said what he meant by a low class trade was that the house was frequented by the people using the Radnor lodging house and the other lodging houses. He should not say that the people were all perfectly respectable, and that it was respectable. His objection was on the ground that the house was not required. He would still say it was not required even if Mr. Arrowsmith brought 100 or 200 people to give evidence that it was required, for that would not alter his opinion that they had more houses than they required in Folkestone. His opinion was that they had too many houses in Folkestone for the legitimate requirements of the population. During the past year they had 71 proceeded against for drunkenness.

Mr. Arrowsmith: Do you know what the proportion of on licences to the population in Canterbury is?

Mr. Reeve: I believe Canterbury is worse than any town in England. Proceeding, he said he had the statistics there for all England per 10,000 persons. The figures for Canterbury were 54.90 against Folkestone 24.47. They had in Canterbury one on licence to every 200 of the population.

Mr. Arrowsmith: That is to say double the number of houses per population that you have?

Mr. Reeve: Yes, but I do not think it is to the credit of Canterbury.

In answer to further questions, Mr. Reeve said the number for Dover and its liberties worked out more than at Folkestone. He would not like to say that Dover was the soberest town in England. The proportion of proceedings for drunkenness worked out at Dover at 1.58, while at Folkestone it was nearly 2½.

Det. Sergt. Johnson said he frequently visited the licensed premises in the borough, and amongst them he went to the Lord Nelson. With regard to the trade of the house, he would describe it more of a casual trade chiefly from the lodging houses. It was not a house used to any great extent by the fishing people, for he very rarely saw fishermen use it. He had not seen any of the employees of the Railway Company in it. During the past few months he had made notes of the number of customers in the house when he had visited there. The witness then detailed the visits, which took place at various times of the day, and according to his figures the most persons he had seen in the house at one time was 12, while on two other occasions there were none. Proceeding, he said the general character of the customers was that they were chiefly of the casual class, labourers, and rag and bone collectors. He had never seen a fisherman in the house on any of his visits, except on one occasion when there were two. The bulk of the trade at the Oddfellows, Ship and Jubilee was done on the fishmarket side of the premises. He considered if that licence was taken away there would be ample accommodation elsewhere to supply the customers who at present used that house.

Cross-examined, witness said in spite of evidence that was brought to the contrary, he would still say it was not required for the needs of the neighbourhood.

Inspector Swift said he had known the house for 31 years. It was not now a fisherman`s house, but was now generally used by the casual class and people who used the Radnor lodging house. He was familiar with the back entrance, which made it difficult of proper police supervision. He had had an experience of that, and he had reported one licensee of the house for supplying drink during prohibited hours. On Sunday morning, April 18th, 1897, from eight o`clock to twenty minutes past nine, no less than 67 men were served through the back window opening from the tap room overlooking and back yard. That window and back entrance was still the same as it was then. He agreed with Det. Sergt. Johnson that the bulk of the trade of the three adjoining public houses was with the fish market.

This concluded the evidence on behalf of the police.

Mr. Richard Moxon, the senior member of Messrs. Ash & Company, said in 1909 the trade done in beer was 232 barrels; in 1910, 268; in 1911, 257; in 1912, 178; in 1913, 146. With regard to spirits, in 1910, 47 gallons were sold; in 1911, 59; in 1912 45; in 1913, 41½. Since the present tenant had been in the house the trade had nearly doubled. From October 8th to February 28th, 1913, the former did 54½ barrels, while the present tenant that year had done 93 barrels in the corresponding period. That roughly represents 4½ barrels a week, and that time had been the worst of the whole year. The previous tenant (Mr. Monk) was totally unsuited for the trade, although he was a very respectable man, but he never really troubled about the trade. That house was scheduled last year. Some years ago they had 19 houses in Folkestone, but they had lost six of them. If that house was taken away from them they would not have one in that particular district, unless they went up North Street, and that house was only a beerhouse. The Marquis of Lorne and the Welcome were not closed under the compensation clause.

Mr. Frank May, the licensee, said since he had been in the house he had gradually increased the trade,  and he now averaged about 4½ barrels a week. He was satisfied with the trade of the house, and would like to stay. The class of the customer using the house was mostly fishermen and casuals from the lodging house. He handed in a petition asking for the licence to be renewed, and the signatures were thos of Rye fishermen, Flushing fishermen, and Folkestone fishermen. The signatures numbered about 250.

The Chairman pointed out that the addresses given included all parts of the town.

The Clerk said the addresses given included Manor Road, Ingles Mews, Cheriton Road, Coolinge Road, and Castle Hill Avenue.

Mr. May said Mr. Hart obtained some of the signatures. He (witness) got about half of them, and they were the signatures of people using his house.

The Chairman, reading from the petition: Bouverie Road, Bouverie Square, Manor Road, Broadmead Road. Those are not customers of your house, surely?

The Clerk said that they had got it in evidence that the signatories were mostly fishermen and harbour men, but it was obvious to anyone who knew, a considerable number of them were nothing of the kind.

Mr. John Jones said he had known the Lord Nelson since 1862. He had recently been frequently in the house, and he did not agree with the Chief Constable that the class of person who used the house were low class. He knew one man named Sturgess, who had used the house for 50 years. He considered the house was the most convenient for fishermen. When the fishermen came ashore they would find at times it was impossible to get in any of the houses on the Stade. There were times, however, when all the houses were empty. On July 30th last, he was conducting an election for Mr. King-Turner, and he went in a taxi-cab to all the licensed houses on the Stade, but he could not find a single voter in any of them. He should say with the increased business done at the fishmarket that the present houses did not find sufficient accommodation. In recent years the number of houses had been reduced by one half. They had held meetings at the Lord Nelson in past years, and they would begin holding them again in the house if the tenant would have them. The East Cliff district was an increasing one, and at present he should say there were 5,000 or 6,000 people residing in it. To meet that population they had only seven houses. That made one licensed house to 1,000 inhabitants, which was not sufficient. He thought they wanted two or three more houses on the East Cliff.

Cross-examined, witness said he certainly considered the house was most convenient. He believed the house was doing a better trade than it did. He agreed that a year ago in the Folkestone Daily News there was an article published, for which he took full responsibility, that the licensed victuallers were not doing so well.

Thomas Edward Saunders, a fisherman, boat proprietor, and Fishery Officer appointed by the local committee, said he had known the house for 35 years. He did not altogether agree with the Chief Constable that the trade was a low class one. The people who went into the house were not the class with whom the fishermen would not associate. He considered it was the most convenient house for the fish market. He did not think there were sufficient houses now for the use of the fishermen. The trade at the market had increased quite 50 percent since he had been collecting statistics during the past six years. He complained that there was no night house for the fishermen when they came in at night.

Mr. Reeve (to witness): You think you ought to have more houses?

Witness: I think we ought to have one at least open all night, and when I have been coming home in the boat at half past two in the morning I have run into Dover to get a drink.

Mr. Reeve: You have been thirsty.

Mr. A.J. Hart said he had lived in Folkestone all his life, and he knew the Radnor Street district very well. He had known the house since the late Councillor Saunders kept it. The class of people who used it were fishermen and the people who lived in that neighbourhood. It might also be used by casual labourers, but he would not call it low class. He had constantly seen fishermen writing their letters in the house, at which letters were also received for them.

The Chief Constable referred to four men who had been arrested in the house at different times and sentenced, two of them to three years` penal servitude, and asked Mr. Hart if he considered they were low class.

Mr. Hart admitted that he should think such men were low class.

The Town Clerk asked witness how many signatures he obtained to the petition.

Mr. Hart, in explanation, said he had got about half of them. A large number of the signatures were those of people who frequently went down to the fishmarket, and they occasionally used the house. That was the reason they signed the petition. He admitted that those people could go into some of the other places there. He did not represent any of the brewers in that locality, with the exception that he was a tenant of one of their houses. He was, however, secretary of the Licensed Victuallers` Association.

Mr. Arrowsmith addressed the Magistrates, and in the course of his remarks he said the evidence of the police was somewhat perfunctory, while the evidence he had called proved, he contended, that the house was required. He pointed out that where the number of licences had been considerably reduced there had been an increase in drunkenness, as was foreshadowed in the minority report of the Licensing Commission. He also referred to the fact that his clients had been hardly hit under the compensation clause, for if that licence went they had lost practically all the licences they held in that particular district before then. It seemed to him that an undue proportion of the burden of reduction had fallen on his clients.

The Magistrates retired, and on their return the Chairman said that they were unanimously of opinion that they should not grant the renewal of the licence, and the case would be referred to Canterbury on the grounds that it was not required for the needs of the neighbourhood. They, however, provisionally renewed the licence.

Folkestone Herald 14-3-1914

Adjourned Licensing Sessions

Monday, March 9th: Before Mr. E.T. Ward, Mr. W.G. Herbert, Alderman T.J. Vaughan, Lieut. Colonel R.J. Fynmore, Mr. J. Stainer, Mr. G.I. Swoffer, Mr. R.J. Linton, Mr. G. Boyd, Mr. J.J. Giles, and Colonel G.P. Owen.

The only case before the Court was that of the Lord Nelson, the renewal of the licence of which house was deferred at the Annual Licensing Sessions held on February 12th.

Mr. Arrowsmith, of Canterbury, applied on behalf of the owners, Messrs. Ash and Co., and the tenant of the house, Mr. Frank May, for the renewal of the licence.

The Magistrates` Clerk pointed out that at the Annual Licensing Sessions there was an application to serve a notice on account of redundancy.

The Chief Constable put in a copy of the notice of objection served on the applicant, Mr. Frank May, on the ground that the house was not needed. A plan of the district was also produced with the public houses marked in red ink.

After Mr. Arrowsmith had admitted all formal evidence, the Chief Constable said this was a fully licensed public house known as the Lord Nelson, situated in Radnor Street. The present licensee was Mr. Frank May, who obtained the transfer on the 8th October last. The registered owners were Messrs. Ash and Co., of Canterbury. The rateable value was £24. The present tenant was the sixth in 11½ years. The house was situated in Radnor Street, behind the Fish Market. Radnor Street, the Stade, North Street, and East Street comprised the fishing quarter, which adjoined the outer harbour, and was cut off, as they knew, by the Harbour branch of the S.E. and C. Railway. In this quarter there were 143 houses, including 7 on licensed houses, and allowing five persons per house there was one licensed house for every 102 persons – men, women and children. For the borough at large there were 79 on licensed houses, the average being one on licensed house to every 423 persons. Radnor Street was about 180 yards long. There were 51 houses in it, five being fully licensed public houses. The Lord Nelson was on the right hand side of the street, entering from Beach Street, and next door to the Radnor common lodging house. There were two doors entering from the street to the front bar, which was divided into two compartments with a partition about 6ft. 3 ins. high. Behind was another room, a tap room, or bar parlour, with a window overlooking the back yard. From this back room there were six steps leading down to the back door of the house, which opened into the back yard. This yard was approached from the Fish Market by four steps under an archway just 3ft. 2ins. wide. In this yard there were two store let to different tenants, used for storing fish boxes, etc. There was also a back door opening into the yard from the cottage, No. 8, Radnor Street. Two windows of the kitchen of the Radnor lodging house opened into the yard on the ground floor. There was also a door from the lodging house opening into the yard; that, however, appeared to be rarely used.

The Magistrates` Clerk: Can you say whether the approach or archway is lighted?

The Chief Constable: There is no light in the yard or the approach to the yard. There is only light from the Fish Market. Continuing, Mr. Reeve said the nearest licensed house was the Jubilee, 45 yards further down the street. The rateable value of that was £36. The Wonder Tavern in Beach Street, opposite the end of Radnor Street, was 50 yards away, and the rateable value of that was also £36. The other licensed houses in Radnor Street were the Oddfellows (rateable value £32), the Ship (rateable value £32), and the Packet Boat (rateable value £30). Within a radius of 150 yards of the house there were 18 other on-licensed houses. The trade of the Lord Nelson appeared to him to be small, and of rather a low class. He (the Chief Constable) considered the premises to be the least suitable of any of the licensed houses in the street, and owing to the back entrance through this narrow archway very difficult for proper police supervision. He made no complaint as to the manner in which the house was conducted.

In answer to the Magistrates` clerk, the Chief Constable mentioned that the Jubilee, Ship, and Oddfellows had a front entrance to the Fish Market, and their main business was on the Fish Market side.

In answer to Mr. Arrowsmith, the Chief Constable, explaining his expression “a low class trade”, said the house was frequented by people using the Radnor common lodging house, and in his opinion they were not all respectable people. He objected to the house on the ground that it was not required. There was no objection before the Court as to the construction or the accommodation of the house. He would say that the house was not required even if six, a hundred, or two hundred people said that it was wanted. His opinion was that it was not required in Folkestone for the legitimate requirements of the public, and no evidence brought forward would alter or shake his opinion.

Mr. Arrowsmith commented upon there being 71 convictions last year for drunkenness, and the proportion of licensed houses being one for every 423 people.

Asked by Mr. Arrowsmith what the proportion of houses was at Canterbury, Mr. Reeve replied that he thought it was the worst town in England in that respect.

Mr. Arrowsmith pointed out that in Canterbury there were 120 fully licensed houses, which was one to every 200 of the population – double the number they had at Folkestone.

The Chief Constable: I do not think it is to the credit of Canterbury.

Mr. Arrowsmith: And the number proceeded against was 48, considerably less than in Folkestone. Was that not gratifying, considering they had so many houses? Turning to Dover, he said the statistics showed they had 156 fully licensed houses, a proportion of one to every 270 of the population, and Dover was the soberest town of Kent.

The Chief Constable: I should not like to say so.

Mr. Arrowsmith: The proportion of proceeding is 1.58 per 1,000, while you are nearly 2½ percent. Apparently they were a good deal more sober in Folkestone with a greater proportion of houses.

The Chief Constable: There may be reasons for that.

Det. Officer Leonard Johnson said that in the course of his duties he frequently visited the licensed premises, and amongst others the Lord Nelson. The trade was a casual one, chiefly from the lodging house next door.

The Magistrates` Clerk: Is it a house used to a great extent by the fishing people? – No, sir. Very rarely you see fishermen using the house.

In answer to the Chief Constable, witness said he had never seen the house used by employees from the Harbour and the Railway. Continuing, he gave particulars of visits made. On the 8th December he visited the house at 9 p.m., when there were twelve customers; on the 22nd December at 1.10 p.m., none; on January 6th at 8.10 p.m., 8; Friday, January 9th, 9.15 p.m., 8; Tuesday, January 27th, 8.15 p.m., 8; Thursday, 12th February, 6.45 p.m., 3; Friday, 20th February, 10.55 a.m., none; Tuesday, February 24th, 6.45 p.m., 3; Wednesday, 4th March, 12.30 p.m., 7. The customers were chiefly of the casual class, rag and bone collectors, etc. The bulk of the trade of the Jubilee, Oddfellows, and Ship Inn was done on the Fish Market side, and those houses were principally used by the fishing fraternity. He considered there would be ample accommodation to supply the customers who used the Lord Nelson, which he did not consider was needed.

Cross-examined by Mr. Arrowsmith, witness said he could not give statistics as to the numbers in the Jubilee or other houses at 1.10 p.m. He would say that the house was not required in spite of any evidence.

Inspector Swift said that he had known the Lord Nelson for 39 years. It was not a house used by fishermen. The back entrance made proper police supervision difficult. He gave particulars of a report he made of intoxicating liquor having been supplied during prohibited hours on Sunday, 18th April, 1897. No less than 67 people were served through the back room window in the back yard. No-one would suffer if the house was taken away.

In answer to Mr. Arrowsmith, witness said the case of 17 years ago was only mentioned to show the difficulty of supervision. He would adhere to his opinion that the house was not necessary.

Mr. Richard Moxon, a member of the firm of Messrs. Ash and Co., gave the barrelage of the house as follows: 1909, 232; 1910, 268; 1911, 257; 1912, 178; 1913, 146 – an average trade of 216 barrels per year. The spirit trade averaged 48 gallons; in 1911 it was 59 gallons; 1912, 45; and 1913, 41½. He added that since the present tenant had been there he had nearly doubled the trade. Between October and the present time the tenant had disposed of 93 barrels; during the same time the former tenant only did 54½ barrels. This was the worst time of the year. Continuing, Mr. Moxon gave the reasons why six tenants had left the house, and ascribed the changes to domestic troubles and illness generally. Large sums had been spent in repairing the house. Some years ago the firm had something like 19 houses in Folkestone. They had lost six or seven, all in this district, including the Star, Marquis of Lorne, Welcome, Blue Anchor, Hope, and Railway Tavern. If this house was taken away, they would have none in this particular district. He was of opinion they had been exceptionally badly used.

Mr. Frank May said he had gradually increased the trade to four or five barrels a week. He was satisfied with the trade, and would like to stay on. He had a petition signed by between 200 and 300 people, and pretty well all were customers of his.

The Magistrates` Clerk said he noticed that the addresses of some of the signatories were Manor Road, Cheriton Road, Castle Hill Avenue, etc., and asked witness how many signatures he obtained.

Mr. May: About half.

The Chairman then noted addresses from Bouverie Road, Bouverie Square, Manor Road, Broadmead Road, and the Railway Hotel, Shorncliffe.

Mr. Arrowsmith said that Mr. Albert Hart obtained some of the signatures.

Councillor John Jones said he had known the Lord Nelson since 1862. He did not agree with the Chief Constable that the trade of the house was low class. He mentioned Messrs. Sturgess and Taylor who had used the house for 50 years. It was the most convenient house for the fishermen, though he said nothing against the other houses. Sometimes they could not get in the houses, though sometimes they were empty. He maintained that the other houses were not sufficient for the accommodation of the fishermen. He estimated they had about 5,000 people in that quarter, and believed there were 11 houses formerly in the district. At the same time the fishing industry had increased considerably, and there was now far more business that he had ever known since 1862. He argued that they could ignore all the houses except two, because it was too far for the men to go to leave their fish. Someone might “borrow” their fish in their absence. Alderman Vaughan used the house in the old days as a committee room at election times. There were about ten hundred to twelve hundred houses on the East Cliff; taking the Chief Constable`s figures of five to a house, that would give a population of 5,000 to 6,000, and there were only six or seven houses to supply the neighbourhood. He agreed with Mr. Arrowsmith that there would be about one licensed house to every 1,000 of the population.

In answer to the Chief Constable, Mr. Jones said the trade was increasing, and looked like increasing, and that of the other houses was increasing. He did not think he had altered his opinion that the houses were doing well. He was the proprietor of the Folkestone Daily News, and he agreed with the article written twelve months ago, or nearly so, in which he said “Now, it is a well-known fact with everyone that owing to the Budget, Compensation Act, and other agencies, the licensed trade has been very hardly hit during the last few years. In fact, many licensed victuallers are doing badly, and hardly get a living, and no houses in Folkestone, not even the best, are doing so well as they have done”. He agreed with that, of course. It did not affect the question.

The Chief Constable: You think not? – Certainly.

The Chief Constable: Well, I do.

Mr. Thomas Edward Saunders stated that he was a native of Folkestone, was formerly a fisherman, and was now a boat proprietor and the Fishery Officer appointed by the local committee of the Board of Trade. He had known the Lord Nelson for 35 years. The people were not such as fishermen would not associate with. They did associate with them. He considered that the fishing trade had increased 50% during the last six years. They had nearly a hundred men from the port of Rye landing fish there, and they had trawlers and boats from Flushing. The men on the boats that came into the port were not included in the Chief Constable`s figures They had no night house in Folkestone, though they had one at Dover, where there was not half so much done.

In answer to the Chief Constable, witness said he had never experienced any difficulty with regard to the steps leading to the yard and into the house. There were other houses close at hand.

Mr. Albert James Hart said he had known the Lord Nelson for 50 years. He considered the house to be a convenient one.

Questioned by the Chief Constable, he did not agree that the trade was low class.

Mr. Reeve quoted some instances in which men had been arrested on the premises and convicted to terms of imprisonment.

In reply to the Magistrates` Clerk, Mr. Hart said those people certainly did use the house in Mr. Champion`s time.

Questioned by the Magistrates` Clerk, Mr. Hart said he was the Secretary of the Folkestone Licensed Victuallers` Association, but was in no way connected with the house.

Mr. Arrowsmith made a strong appeal to the Magistrates to renew the licence. He said it was the duty of the Justices to regulate the licences according to the requirements of the public; it might even be to increase the number. He referred to the evidence of Mr. Jones, who knew the district probably better than anyone else in Folkestone, to that of Mr. Saunders, and to the petition. At the present moment the trade was increasing, and the barrelage represented about 2,300 glasses of beer a week – a considerable consumption. He commented upon the growing trade at the Fish Market, emphasised the increasing numbers of fishermen who used the Harbour, who went on their boats, and who were not included in the figures given by the Chief Constable, and maintained that a reduction of licences did not tend to a reduction of drunkenness, but tended to an increase rather than otherwise. It must be so, because when they had four men in a house where there were formerly only two, the chances were more beer would be consumed. He asked the Magistrates to renew the licence on the ground that the evidence was entirely in his favour, and went to prove conclusively that the house was required.

The Magistrates, after a short deliberation, intimated that they would not grant the renewal, and the case would be referred to Canterbury on the ground that the house was not required.

The Magistrates` Clerk: You provisionally grant the licence.

Folkestone Daily News 14-3-1914

Adjourned Licensing Sessions.

The Lord Nelson Licence.

The Licensing (adjourned) Sessions were held on Monday morning, when the Bench consisted of Mr. E.T. Ward, Messrs. Herbert, Vaughan, Stainer, Swoffer, Fynmore, Linton, Boyd, and Wood.

It will be remembered that at the Annual Licensing Sessions the Chief Constable, Mr. H. Reeve, objected to the renewal of the licence on the grounds of redundancy, and the renewal of the licence was put back until March 9th. On Monday morning the Chief Constable formulated his objections, principally upon the small trade.

The tenant (Mr. May) deposed to being quite content with the business done, and produced a petition signed by between 250 and 300 persons, mostly customers, asking that the licence be renewed.

Councillor J. Jones gave evidence as to why the licence should be renewed. Mr. Saunders, Inspector under the Fisheries Act, and Mr. A.J. Hart all gave evidence in favour of the renewal of the licence.

At 1.50 the Bench retired, and upon returning into Court at 1.55, an absence of five minutes, the Chairman said: On the grounds that the house is not wanted we are unanimously of opinion not to grant the renewal of the licence, but to refer it to Canterbury.

Folkestone Daily News 10-7-1914

Comment

We have not been able to comment on the action of the authorities on the licensing question for some time past, as the matter of the Lord Nelson was sub judice, and during our many years` connection with the press of Folkestone we have never descended to deal with matters sub judice, or influencing one way or the other any judicial decision.

The matters are now settled, and hence we consider ourselves free to criticise the action taken by the licensing authorities. In 1913, seven houses were scheduled on the score of redundancy. To our mind not a tittle of evidence affecting the question was brought in support of those houses, with the result that five out of the seven were disposed of by the local justices, leaving two to be further considered at the Canterbury Quarter Sessions. That body met before the Sessions and returned the Lord Nelson, referring the Cyprus to the Quarter Sessions. They refused it more for sanitary reasons than on the score of redundancy.

The case of the Lord Nelson did not differ in 1914 from that of 1913, yet the county licensing authorities said on Wednesday exactly the reverse to that which they stated a year ago. No explanation was given why they altered their decision.

It is not our province to differ from the justices, either county or town, but we are entitled to say that erratic decisions, peculiar and inconsistent conduct, inflict a very great hardship on those who are interested in the trade. If the local licensing justices say that seven houses ought to be referred on the score of redundancy in 1913, and there is no difference in 1914, and they are content to say that only one house is in excess of those required, reasonable men, unbiased by any interests or sentiment, cannot understand their action. Neither can they understand the county licensing authorities altering their mind from one year to another without giving any reason.

The licensing trade is a legitimate business, and public houses should be properly and fairly dealt with by the State the same as any other property. While the proprietors of licensed property and the tenants of the same are harassed and kept on tenterhooks by such erratic conduct on the part of those whom the Legislature has entrusted to carry out the provisions of the Licensing Act, what chance is there for genuine improvement of either property or tenants?

In the olden days a man invested his savings and took a licensed house. He whole of his interests were bound up in the same, and as a rule he had decided to end his days in his house. He took a pride in the same, a pride in his customers, and the characteristics of his business. Our memory takes us back to numbers in Folkestone and in other places who have been honoured and respected citizens, intelligent far above the average, broad-minded in the extreme, good husbands, sons and fathers, maintaining self-respect themselves and commanding self-respect from others.

These men are being ruthlessly swept out of their business by cranks, faddists and fanatics, who lack intelligence, foresight, and statesmanship. The community is suffering from the loss of such men, who were a national asset, not now to be replaced.

The whole country furnishes object lessons similar to Folkestone. The professed intention of the Temperance faddist seems to be that of increasing Temperance or reducing drunkenness. This was their pretence. Were they ever sincere, or are they sincere now? The tendency of present legislation is to penalise respectably conducted houses because they do not sell enough drink, and a premium is given to those houses which sell a large quantity.

The Lord Nelson, from time immemorial, has been a fisherman`s house, from the time Mr. William Harrison kept it up to now. It never did a large trade. The proprietor and the various tenants never took steps to make it do a large trade. They were content with a respectable, cosy house to meet the requirements of a certain class, and did so.

The authorities closed two common lodging houses on either side of the house. By doing so some of those who lived at common lodging houses were driven to the Lord Nelson. The tenants, by their licence, were bound to serve them, even though some of their more respectable customers went elsewhere. The owners of the Lord Nelson spent enough money to re-build the house in partitioning and making bars to suit the customers they would have preferred not to supply, with the nett result that for doing what the law compelled them to do their licence is taken away, the evidence relied upon being that they did not sell sufficient drink, and served, as it was put, rag and bone people.

As another object lesson of idiotic legislation administered locally with a lack of intelligence we would call the attention of our readers and old residents to a triangular block of buildings in Beach Street. We remember four licensed houses adjoining each other in this block – The Providence, Blue Anchor, Queen`s Head and Wonder Tavern.

The teetotal prating about this block was nauseous, and cases of drunkenness on being heard by the justices were always attributed to this block. They were four respectable houses, well conducted in every way, and provided for various classes of fishermen, South Eastern employees, and workers in the neighbourhood.

Three houses out of this block have been closed by the authorities on the score of redundancy. The fourth one is always crowded and sells more beer now than all the four put together, while it is secure from interference. Why? Because the premium offered for increased trade is such that the evidence of redundancy could not be produced, and the amount required for compensation, were it closed, would be more than the commissioners would give.

We have no wish to close any well conducted house on the score of redundancy. The more there are the less there is of drunkenness and more easy the supervision, and also the greater comfort and convenience for the public. The statistics of drunkenness, as at present given by convictions, are utterly fallacious. The young, energetic policemen, wanting to earn promotion, will often arrest people for drunkenness when older and more common-sense men will send them home and prefer no charge. Thus the number of public houses has nothing to do with it.

On Wednesday last twelve houses were referred to the Canterbury Quarter Sessions, eight of which were undefended. Two were given their licence, and two refused. This means that on the 1st of January, 1915, there will be ten less beerhouses in Kent than there were in 1914. There will be just as much drink consumed, or even more, but the revenue will not be so large. Kent will follow Northern towns, and the public will insist on their liberty and choice of having moderate refreshments to suit their tastes, and also accommodation which they require. This has been provided in the North by clubs; it will be provided in the South.

Such clubs, on being conducted as respectably as the houses which are being swept away on the excuse of redundancy, can defy the police and Temperance faddists. They will be under no restriction as to opening or closing to a minute, and furthermore will not have to contribute to the revenue. When the Lord Nelson is closed, a Fishermen`s and Mariners` Club will be formed to take its place. Such club will be allowed to supply its members if they go to sea or land between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. The proprietors will not be compelled to serve rag and bone dealers, for serving which the licence of the Lord Nelson has been taken away. And such club will also, as time goes on, reduce the trade of licensed houses which are now doing well in such a manner that they will be closed on the score of redundancy.

We shall have more to say as time goes on.

East Kent Licensing.

The Kent Licensing Committee held their annual sessions at St. Augustine`s, Canterbury, on July 8th. Lord Harris presided up to lunchtime, when Parliamentary duties called him to London, necessitating the Vice Chairman, the Hon. Plumptre, taking his place.

There were twelve cases that had been remitted, eight of which were uncontested, leaving the Coach and Horses at Deal (Flint and Co), a house in Sandwich belonging to Mackeson and Co., the King`s Head in Herne Bay, and the Lord Nelson in Folkestone belonging to Ash and Co. Learned counsel were engaged on both sides. The evidence was of the similar stereotyped kind as that usually given in these cases, which it seems are decided more by the fact of the funds in the hands of the Commission Committee than anything else. No doubt this is the reason why the other eight houses were not defended.

The following evidence was submitted:

Number of tenements in the area isolated by the railway line:

1  The Stade                  23 tenements
2  Radnor Street             52      
3  East Street                32      
4  Clout`s Alley              11      
5  Dunn`s Alley              12      
6  Bates` Alley               11      
7  North Street              64      
8  East Cliff Gardens       19      
9  East Cliff                   56      
10 Radnor Bridge Road      8      
11 East Cliff Villas            4      
12 Dudley Road              70      
13 Seagrave Road            6      
14 Stanley Road             39      
15 Burrow Road              30      
16 Penfold Road             73      
17 Warren Road              63      
18 Thanet Gardens         54      
19 Wear Bay Crescent     67      
20 Wear Bay Road          16      
21 Radnor Bridge Cottages 8      

In Institutions

22 St. Andrew`s Convalescent Home       200 persons
23 Wear Bay                                       100     
24 Sanatorium                                      40     

Public Works in the isolated area
Approximate estimate of number of men who need refreshments

Flushing Service                                               200
South Eastern Good Service                               300
Porters` Passenger Service                                250
South Eastern Works Permanent Staff                   40
Casually Employed                                             50
Customs Officials                                             100
Colliers and Traders                                          100
Ramsgate Smacks                                             70
Rye Steam Trawlers                                           60
Fishermen                                                      300
Fish Packers, etc.                                           100
Fish Dealers                                                   100
Marx, Builder                                                  100
Dust Destructor and Engineering Works                 50
Allotment Gardens                                            60
Plicher`s Market Gardens                                   50
Sundry Servants and Employees                        100
Total                                                          2040

Licensed Houses in the Isolated Area:
Fully Licensed
Lord Nelson, Jubilee, Ship, Oddfellows, Packet Boat, Royal Oak, East Cliff Tavern (the Warren Inn, a fully licensed house at the extreme end of the area, provided with pleasure gardens, was deprived of its licence)
Beer Licence – The Lifeboat

During the season numbers are greatly augmented by visitors, especially at boarding houses. Several houses have from 40 to 60 boarders between July and August.

The Lord Nelson is the largest house, and more conveniently situated, especially for visitors. I has a frontage of 30 feet and a depth of 26 feet, with a club room for visitors 16ft. 3in. by 12ft. 7in. It is admirably situated for private parties, etc.

The Jubilee is a house with a smaller frontage, and has been extended over that which was known as the Skittle Alley. The Oddfellows and the Ship have also been extended over yards, the same as can be done by the Lord Nelson.

The Royal Oak and the East Cliff Tavern are negligible quantities as far as accommodation is concerned. They are simply cottages that have been adapted for small public houses.

The want of accommodation is seriously felt by those who have invested their money in property in this isolated district. Formerly there were more houses to supply the refreshments. They have been closed by the authorities. The North Foreland has been transformed into a Bethel or Temperance tavern. The Radnor, Tramway, Star, and Marquis of Lorne have been deprived of their licences and are now common lodging houses, accommodating 100 to 150 of the travelling class, who require refreshments, which the westernmost bar of the Lord Nelson has been partitioned off to supply (shown on the plan marked A). The centre bar (marked B) is used by the fishermen and others for temporary refreshments during the daytime, and the club room (marked C) is used during the evening by the better class of fishermen to discuss business problems, and during the day for visitors to the Warren to obtain refreshments.

The annexed plan and rough model show how this eastern district is cut off and isolated from the rest of the town.

The South Eastern Pier continues through the Harbour Station and a few yards across the bridge, which divides the inner and outer harbours, from whence it rises on a gradient to 20 feet, and continues about halfway up the Tram Road to the level crossing at East Cliff, then follows on a spur line which joins the main line beyond the Junction Station.

Thus the whole of the inhabitants and workmen mentioned are prevented from getting into the town, except by the level crossing in Warren Road, which is kept shut. A few yards lower down is a style, very dangerous to children, and where many accidents have occurred. Further down is the East Cliff crossing, and nothing between that and Radnor Street, where the bridge is about 20ft. high.

There are three arches on the Stade for vehicular traffic. These are very dangerous for foot passengers, and no pathway exists on either side. Two fish carts passing each other under these arches make them impassable and very dangerous for pedestrians, who have to divert when coming from the Harbour round the Fish Market and through May`s Alley (marked on the model), and round to the right, past the Nelson and through the Radnor Street arch. The gates at the Harbour have to be often closed, necessitating the men walking along the pathway on the easternmost side of the line, as shown on the model.

The slipway or landing stage is used by the fishermen and all those who enter the Harbour. The steps further along are used the same for fish carrying, but not by the general public.

Take a similar area outside the isolated district west of the Tram Road, including Beach Street, Seagate Street, Dover Road (from the Raglan), London Street, Tram Road, Radnor Bridge Road, Martello Avenue, Folly Road, Morrison Road, Swiss Terrace, Warwick Terrace, Grosvenor Terrace, Saffron`s Place, Rossendale Road, and Dover Street (to the Raglan).

Fifteen streets with under 500 tenements are allowed twelve licensed houses, including the Royal George, Alexandra, Wonder, South Foreland, Chequers, Wellington, Oddfellows, Granville, Swan, Raglan, Martello, and Raglan Tavern. This averages one house to 80 tenements, and the isolated side means one house to 103 tenements. It is almost incredible to say, with all the working population, that the Lord Nelson is unnecessary.

The house at Ashford had its licence renewed, also that at Sandwich, but house at Herne Bay and the Lord Nelson were refused, notwithstanding the very able defence set up by Mr. Herbert Morris, especially in the case of the King`s Head at Herne Bay. It seems to us that the law must sooner or later be altered to prevent difficulties that must arise if the present state of things continues.

The justices adjourned for some time and considered the matter, and on their return refused both licences.

As far as the Quarter Sessions is concerned, it certainly presents a very excellent opportunity for a pleasant day`s outing for chief constables, officials, policemen and others, and nice little easy jobs for learned counsel. If the licensed victuallers were to devote their energies in attempting to secure common-sense reforms rather than frittering them away on congresses, delegates, etc., there might be hopes for better things. As it is, the reforms must be brought about by healthy expression of public opinion, independent of the interests of monopolies on one side and sentimental faddists on the other.
  
Folkestone Express 11-7-1914

East Kent Licensing

On Wednesday the East Kent Licensing Justices had before them at Canterbury a number of licences which had been referred to them for consideration by the Magistrates in various boroughs and petty sessional divisions. One licence had been referred by the Folkestone Bench, that of the Lord Nelson, Radnor Street, the tenant of which was Mr. F. May, and the owners Messrs. Ash and Co.

Mr. Wardley appeared on behalf of the Folkestone Magistrates and police, and Mr. Morris represented the owners and tenant of the house.

Evidence was given by Chief Constable Reeve, Inspt. Swift, and Det. Sergt. Johnson to the effect that the house was not needed for the requirements of the neighbourhood.

Mr. C. Moxon, sen., Councillor Jones, Mr. May (the tenant) and Mr. Saunders gave evidence in support of the application that the licence should be renewed.

The Magistrates retired to consider their decision, and on their return Mr. Plumptre (the Chairman) said they had decided that the house should go for compensation, and the licence would be temporarily granted for the period until the compensation was paid.

Folkestone Herald 11-7-1914

East Kent Licensing

At the meeting of the East Kent Compensation Authority at Canterbury on Wednesday, Lord Harris presiding, the licence of the Lord Nelson, Radnor Street, Folkestone (tenant, Mr. Frank May; owners, Messrs. Ash and Co., Canterbury) was considered. Mr. Morris applied for the renewal, and Mr. Wardley opposed on behalf of the Borough Justices.

Mr. Wardley stated to the Committee that in the same street there were three other on licensed houses. This house had a back entrance through an archway, which made it very difficult for police supervision. There had been six changes in 11½ years. Before the Licesning Justices a petition was put in signed by 215 people, it being claimed that the house was required. An analysis of that petition showed that only nineteen of the petitioners resided in the fishing quarter, 37 resided in the larger area, and 136 came from the rest of the borough, while eleven came from Rye, twenty two from Flushing, and nine from other places. Seven were publicans, and seven others were either relatives or employees of the gentlemen presenting the petition, while among those who signed were eight who had been convicted for drunkenness. (Laughter)

Chief Constable Reeve considered that the house was the least suitable of any in the street, and not required. Messrs. Ash and Co. served two other houses and supplied a third in the neighbourhood. He did not thing the fishmarket was increasing, although he knew an additional inspector had been appointed.

Detective Sergt. Johnson said he had frequently visited the house, which did a very small trade, among a rowdy class of people, chiefly consisting of “rag and boners”. He very rarely found a fisherman go in.

Inspector Swift denied that fishermen used the house, and declared they would not be seen there. If there was a meeting held there the other night, it was held purposely.

Mr. Frank May (the tenant) said he had done a very fair trade. His customers were mostly fishermen. He was making a living out of the house. He sometimes had meetings in the fishermen`s parlour.

Questioned by Mr. Wardley, witness said they had one last week, but had not had one before during the time he had been there (since October last).

Mr. R. Moxon, of the firm of Messrs. Ash and Co., stated that the trade had improved. In 1900 they spent over £270 on the house.

Councillor John Jones said he was a teetotaller. This house was used by the best class of fishermen, fish packers and hawkers, and steamboat men, and the rag and bone men went there since the other houses had been closed. Since 1862 meetings of fishermen had been held at the Lord Nelson, and one was held there last Saturday (not got up on purpose, but for the consideration of the introduction of motors to trawlers). The other houses had not got much accommodation for meetings. He considered the Fishmarket had grown, and that the house was required.

Questioned by Mr. Wardley, witness said he could not stand going to bethels.

Mr. Thomas Edward Saunders, pleasure boat proprietor, an official inspector appointed by the Board of Trade, said he had known the house many years as being used by fishermen, and after a gradual drop, the trade had increased within the last five years, several new boats having been put on.

The Committee decided to refuse the renewal of the licence.
 
 
 





 
 
 

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