Thanks And Acknowledgements

My thanks go to Kent Libraries and Archives - Folkestone Library and also to the archive of the Folkestone Herald. For articles from the Folkestone Observer, my thanks go to the Kent Messenger Group. Southeastern Gazette articles are from UKPress Online, and Kentish Gazette articles are from the British Newspaper Archive. See links below.

Paul Skelton`s great site for research on pubs in Kent is also linked

Other sites which may be of interest are the Folkestone and District Local History Society, the Kent History Forum, Christine Warren`s fascinating site, Folkestone Then And Now, and Step Short, where I originally found the photo of the bomb-damaged former Langton`s Brewery, links also below.


Welcome

Welcome to Even More Tales From The Tap Room.

Core dates and information on licensees tenure are taken from Martin Easdown and Eamonn Rooney`s two fine books on the pubs of Folkestone, Tales From The Tap Room and More Tales From The Tap Room - unfortunately now out of print. Dates for the tenure of licensees are taken from the very limited editions called Bastions Of The Bar and More Bastions Of The Bar, which were given free to very early purchasers of the books.

Easiest navigation of the site is by clicking on the PAGE of the pub you are looking for and following the links to the different sub-pages. Using the LABELS is, I`m afraid, not at all user-friendly.

Contrast Note

Whilst the above-mentioned books and supplements represent an enormous amount of research over many years, it is almost inevitable that further research will throw up some differences to the published works. Where these have been found, I have noted them. This is not intended to detract in any way from previous research, but merely to indicate that (possible) new information is available.

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Sunday, 4 December 2022

Victoria (1), Beach Street (Kingsbridge Street), Renaming of Royal George 1830s - 1844

Section of Powell`s Survey of Folkestone, 1782


C.P. Davis`s index card
Licensees 
George Hogben c1839 c1840 
William Lee 1841 1842 
Joseph James Jeffrey 1842 1844 
 

Previously thought to have been the house of the same name (located on South Street) it can now be stated with a fair degree of confidence that at some stage in the 1830s this was actually a change of name for the previously existing Royal George until that house was demolished in 1844. Checking the index cards compiled by the late C.P. Davies (Reference librarian at Folkestone Library) shows George Hogben listed (in Pigot`s Directory) at the Victoria, Kingsbridge Street (former name of the area in which the later Beach Street was included). Tellingly, the Royal George is NOT listed in Pigot`s Directory. The next entry on the reference card shows Jeffrey at the same address according to the Rate Book for the town in 1842. Entry No. 3 on the card has Jeffrey, but the address is now South Street in 1845. This is after Jeffrey had left the first Victoria at the time of its demolition. Any lingering doubt that this particular Victoria was a renaming of the old Royal George should be removed by the description of the location of the house as given in the evidence at the Kent Assizes in a damages case Jeffrey took out against the South Eastern Railway Company – as reported by the Maidstone Journal.

Maidstone Journal 30-7-1844

Jeffrey v The South Eastern Railway Company

Mr. Sergeant Shee, with Mr. Lush, was for the plaintiff: Mr. Peacock and Mr. Russell for the defendants.

Mr. Lush having opened the proceedings, Sergeant Shee stated the case to the Jury. The plaintiff kept the Victoria Inn, at Folkestone, and the defendants were the South Eastern Railway Company. It appeared that the Victoria Inn was the property of a family of the name of Marsh, for whom Mr. Gravenor was trustee, and as such the freehold was vested in him. The premises were rented in 1841 by a person of the name of Lee, of whom they were taken in 1842 by the plaintiff. Mr. Jeffrey had carried on the business at the Victoria for some time with great success, and was daily improving it – the maintenance of himself and family depending upon it. When common people committed depredations they were punished for it by the criminal law, but when railway companies destroyed other peoples` property they were to be treated with indulgence; although if they choose to go to Parliament, they could obtain all the powers they required to carry their intentions into effect. But when the trespass of which he complained was committed they had no such powers, and yet they had made a railroad on a turnpike road. The principal business of the inn was derived from the parties who frequented a fish market opposite the plaintiff`s. The company had thought proper to take the turnpike road and make an embankment upon it, by which means the custom of the market was for some time entirely lost to the inn. The company had afterwards made a sort of archway, by which access to the market was obtained. The plaintiff did not complain of any injury done by the workmen employed, but of the loss sustained from the circumstance he had mentioned, and by the company afterwards making a road by which the public road in front of the plaintiff`s house was reduced to nine feet wide, and his trade had been in consequence entirely destroyed. The company had not thought it worthwhile to apply to Parliament, but took the thing into their own hands, thereby depriving the plaintiff of such fair compensation as he would have been entitled to under the provisions of an Act of Parliament. If it could be proved to them that at the time this injury took place the plaintiff had been carrying on a profitable business, and was suddenly deprived of a good connection, he was entitled to fair and reasonable damages.

Mr. Wm. Lee stated that he formerly kept the Victoria, which is in the lower part of the town of Folkestone. He held it under Mr. Ham Tite, and let it on 2nd May, 1842 to Mr. Jeffrey, with the consent of Mr. Ham Tite. The plaintiff had paid him £150 for it - £75 for the goodwill and £75 for fixtures &c. There was a public road in front of the house, upon which the company had built a railroad. The house was now down. The railroad was about 5 yards from the house. There was a fish market about 25 yards in front of the house, and there were a great many persons continually passing along the road. There were a great many customers frequented the house, and by passengers calling for refreshment.

Cross-examined: He came here with the witnesses in the last cause. Mr. Robertson was attorney in both cases.

Sarah Hart stated that she was servant to Mr. Jeffrey at the Victoria Inn. Went to live there in August, 1843, before the railroad was commenced. There was a very respectable business carried on in the house. There was a fish market opposite and a great many persons came from there to the house, as well as persons walking along the road. They drank principally beer – there was a good company in the evening. About a week before she left the custom began to fall off. The dust and dirt was so great that no respectable persons would go there. She used to get a great many “vales” but the last month she had hardly any. Persons used to call them down the packets, but in consequence of the dust respectable persons would not call.

Cross-examined: When the arches were being built the fish market was removed lower down the beach. The greater number of the fishing boats were landed opposite the Victoria – the market had been removed 20 or 30 yards. The principal part of the custom that fell off were parties that came from the packets – several that used to attend from the market went to the other house. There were three or four houses the other side of the road – the Victoria was nearer to the fish market than the other houses before the road was made. The fish market stood almost the middle between the North Foreland and the Victoria – if anything it was a few yards nearer the Victoria.

Re-examined: The fish market was removed in consequence of the road being made.

Wm. Morford is a butcher at Folkestone, - he knew the situation of the Victoria. Previous to the works commencing he had frequently seen people going in there from the fish market. After that there was an obstruction, which prevented people from getting there. The embankment is so high that persons on the harbours where fish are landed cannot see the Victoria. When Mr. Jeffrey took the house he altered the bedrooms and made it more respectable for the accommodation of parties. He had supplied the house with meat, but after the works had begun the trade in steaks and chops had been gone altogether. It was never much of a house until the Dover railroad began, when the labourers working upon it frequented the Victoria.

Cross-examined: Mr. Jeffery had left the house about last May. It had been pulled down about a fortnight ago.

Re-examined: When the house was altered it was frequented by parties who came by the packets and visitors from Dover, because there was a beautiful view of the harbour from it.

Mr. Hawkins, excise officer, stated that the trade of the Victoria had considerably fallen off from the time of the tram road had commenced, which he thought was about the latter end of October.

Mr. Coomber deposed that the works commenced about September last.

Cross-examined: Was the plaintiff in the last case and had sent in the plaints which had been read.

Mr. Hawkins recalled: The trade had fallen off in spirits 3 or 4 gallons a week in each sort. He knew nothing about the beer.Persons from the fish market could get to plaintiff`s house under one or two of the arches.

Re-examined: The falling off in the first place was owing to the labour being taken off the road. The obstruction might have caused a further falling off.

By the Bench: There were not so many pleasure people in October and November as in other seasons.

John Timby deposed to the falling off in the business of the Victoria after the rent had been made.

Mr. Lee re-called: Mr. Ham Tite, the landlord of the Victoria, was a brewer and supplied the house with beer.

Mr. Peacock, in his address to the Jury, remarked upon the fact that neither the brewer nor the spirit merchant had been called, either of whom could have proved more readily the tailing off in the business than the witnesses who had been called.

The Learned Baron, in addressing the Jury, also alluded to that circumstance and said that it was the duty of the plaintiff to furnish them with the best evidence upon the plaint that he could. It would be, however, for them to award him such fair and reasonable compensation as they considered him entitled to for any loss he had sustained by the proceedings of the company.

Verdict for the plaintiff. Damages £125.

Note: No record of William Lee in More Bastions.

Canterbury Weekly Journal, Dover Chronicle 3-8-1844

Assizes: Nisi Prius Court (Before Mr. Baron Gurney)

Jeffery v The South Eastern Railway Company

Mr. Sergeant Shee (with whom was Mr. Lush) stated that the plaintiff in this case had been a licensed publican at the Victoria Inn, in Folkestone. The plaintiff carried on a most successful business. The railway company wanted communication between their railway and the harbour. When other persons than railway companies chose to break down people`s walls and destroy their trees they were indicted for it criminally, and placed in the dock, but railway companies could do an immense deal without being molested, and were allowed sometimes to do nearly as they pleased.

The ground of the plaintiff`s complaint was that his custom, which had depended very much on the fish market, and the traffic from the packets, was almost wholly cut off by the erection of the tramway, which the Company had executed without an Act of Parliament, and without any more authority than the man on the moon. They had committed a public nuisance, for which they were liable to be indicted, and in doing so they had done an injury to an individual, for which no sum that a jury would be likely to give could be considered an adequate compensation.

Mr. Peacock argued that before the opening of the railway the trade of the house was so bad that it was not worth anyone`s while to keep it open, and that the plaintiff could not prove any substantial damage. He also contended that the falling-off in the plaintiff`s trade arose principally, if not wholly, from visitors, whose attendance had fallen off as the winter approached.

Mr. Baron Gurney, in summing up to the jury, said that when a company obtained an Act of Parliament it was undoubtedly correct that they were enabled to take away men`s property, but they could even then only do so by compensating the parties under the provision of that Act. If they had got no Act they might still take property on agreement with parties. In this case it had not been shown either that the company had had any right to take the property, or that they had entered into agreement for it. The plaintiff in this case had given £75 premium for the house, and there was no question on the evidence that a very large portion of his trade had been cut off by the erection of the tramway in front of his house. It was for the jury to say to what compensation he was entitled.

The jury found for the plaintiff – damages £125.

Dover Telegraph 3-8-1844

Assizes: Nisi Prius Court

Jeffery v The South Eastern Railway Company

Mr. Sergeant Shee (with whom was Mr. Lush) stated that the plaintiff in this case had been a licensed publican at the Victoria Inn, in Folkestone. The plaintiff carried on a most successful business. The railway company wanted communication between their railway and the harbour. When other persons than railway companies chose to break down people`s walls and destroy their trees they were indicted for it criminally, and placed in the dock, but railway companies could do an immense deal without being molested, and were allowed sometimes to do nearly whatever they wanted.

The ground of the plaintiff`s complaint was that his custom, which had depended very much on the fish market, and the traffic from the packets, was almost wholly cut off by the erection of the tramway, which the Company had executed without an Act of Parliament, and without any more authority than the man on the moon. They had committed a public nuisance, for which they were liable to be indicted, and in doing so they had done an injury to an individual, for which no sum that a jury would be likely to give could be considered an adequate compensation.

The jury found for the plaintiff – damages £125.

West Kent Guardian 3-8-1844

Assizes: Jeffery v The South Eastern Railway Company

Mr. Sergeant Shee, with Mr. Lush was for the plaintiff; Mr. Peacock and Mr. Russell for the defendants.

Mr. Lush having opened the proceedings, Sergeant Shee stated the case to the jury. The plaintiff kept the Victoria Inn, at Folkestone, and the defendants were the South Eastern Railway Company. It appeared that the Victoria Inn was the property of a family of the name of Marsh, for which Mr. Gravenor was the trustee, and as such the freehold was vested in him. The premises were rented in 1841 by a person by the name of Lee, of whom they were taken in 1842 by the plaintiff, and the question would be – had Mr. Lee`s tenancy expired when they were transferred to the plaintiff?

Mr. Jeffrey carried on the business at the Victoria for some time with great success, and was daily improving it – the maintenance of himself and family depending upon it. When common people committed depredations they were punished for it by the criminal law, but when railway companies destroyed other peoples` property they were to be treated with indulgence; although if they choose to go to Parliament they could obtain all the powers they required to carry their intentions into effect. But when the trespass of which he complained was committed they had no such powers, and yet they had made a railway upon a turnpike road. The principal business of the Inn was derived from the parties who frequented a fish market opposite the plaintiff`s. The company had thought proper to take the turnpike road and make an embankment upon it, by which means the custom of the market was for some time entirely lost to the Inn. The company had afterwards made a sort of archway, by which access to the market was obtained. The plaintiff did not complain of any injury done by the workmen employed, but of the loss sustained from the circumstances he had mentioned, and by the company afterwards making a road by which the public road in front of the plaintiff`s house was reduced to nine feet wide, and his trade had been in consequence entirely destroyed. The company had not thought it worthwhile to apply to Parliament, but took the thing into their own hands, thereby depriving the plaintiff of such compensation as he would have been entitled to under the provisions of an Act of Parliament. If it could be proved to them that at the time this injury took place the plaintiff had been carrying on a profitable business, and was suddenly deprived of a good compensation, he was entitled to fair and reasonable damage.

The learned Sergeant having called witnesses in support of his statement, Mr. Peacock, in reply, argued that before the opening of the railway the trade of the house was so bad that it was not worth anyone`s while to keep it open, and that the plaintiff could not prove any substantial damages. He also contended that the falling off in the plaintiff`s trade arose principally, if not wholly, from visitors, whose attendance had fallen off as the winter approached.

Mr. Baron Gurney, in summing up to the jury, said that when a company obtained an Act of Parliament, it was undoubtedly correct that they were enabled to take away men`s property, but they could even then only do so by compensating the parties under the provisions of that Act. If they had got no Act they might still take property on agreement with parties. In this case it had not been shown either that the company had any right to take the property, or that they had entered into agreement for it. The plaintiff in this case had given £75 premium for the house, and there was no question on the evidence that a very large portion of his trade had been cut off by the erection of the tramway in front of his house. It was for the jury to say to what compensation he was fairly entitled.

The jury found for the plaintiff – damages £125.

Dover Chronicle 31-8-1844

The new hotel, which is building on the site of the “Old Victoria”, or better known as the “Old Royal George”, is getting on rapidly. It will be a splendid building, and will very much improve that part of Folkestone.

Kentish Mercury 31-8-1844

A new hotel upon an extensive scale is building by Messrs. Calvert upon the site of the old Victoria, which house was the subject of the action at the late Assizes, Jeffery v the Railway Company. The site of two adjoining houses is added to it and it will stand in a good situation for business.

Note: Appears to suggest that the Victoria had been demolished and was being rebuilt. “Extensive scale” does not match the description of the house when advertised for auction in 1870.

Dover Chronicle 22-3-1845

The splendid second-rate hotel, built on the site of the late Victoria is yet untenanted, and the tradespeople are complaining sadly owing to want of business, and not, we regret to say, without cause.

West Kent Guardian 29-3-1845

The splendid second-rate hotel, built on the site of the late Victoria is yet tenantless, and the tradespeople are complaining sadly owing to want of business, and not, we regret to say, without cause.

 


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