Foresters Arms 1940 onward

Folkestone Express 1-6-1940

Inquest

The great danger of “loose talk” was evident at a Folkestone inquest on Tues­day when Mr. B.H. Bonniface, the Folkestone Coroner, conducted an inquiry into the tragic circumstances of the death of Mr. Charles Baker, a retired marine store dealer, who, together with his wife, resided with Mr. W.H. Creasy, his son-in-law, the licensee of the Forester’s Arms, Shellons Street. The deceased, who was 64 years of age, had not been in very good health for two years, and had been rather depressed since the beginning of the war.

From the evidence at the inquest it was clear that on Monday he went out for a walk on the Leas, where he met someone. The conversation turned to the war, and the person with whom he was talking said England had lost the war. This apparently so upset him, and it had such an effect upon him that only a very few hours afterwards he was found dead, hanging by a rope, suspended from a water pipe in the bathroom.

Mrs. Mary Elizabeth Emma Baker, the deceased’s wife, said her husband’s health had not been good lately, and he had been attended by Dr. Claxton for some time. During the last two months he had been very worried about the war. He went out the previous day and was talk­ing to someone on the Leas, with the result that it got on his mind that they had lost the war.

The Coroner: Do you mean that he seemed to be worried by what people had been saying to him?

Mrs. Baker: I do definitely. Proceed­ing, she said her husband had never threatened to take his life. He was the last man she would have thought would have done such a thing. Her husband did not eat his normal lunch, but just picked about and left it. During the afternoon a friend came in and she asked her to have some tea. Later she went into the bathroom and found a chair in the middle of the room. She was about to close the window when she cast her eye round and first saw her husband’s feet in the bath. She then saw her husband in a sitting position over the bath. She rushed out into the garden to fetch her son-in-law, returning with him to the bathroom. She then noticed a rope round her husband’s neck and that it was fastened to a water pipe over the bath. She helped to take her husband down. They telephoned for the Police and doctor. Her husband was depressed during the last war. He was definitely worse on Monday.

Mr. W.H. Creasy, the licensee of the Forester’s Arms, Shellons Street, said the deceased and Mrs. Baker had been living with him since August, 1931. The deceased was his father-in-law. During the past two years he had not been at all himself, and during the past week he had been worse, sitting about, taking no notice of things, and apparently thinking. He had worried about the war. When he (witness) was sitting having his lunch the deceased told him someone had been talking to him about the war. The deceased was pessimistic about the war. About five o’clock when in the garden he heard two screams, and he rushed into the house. Mrs. Baker said “Quick. Father is in the bathroom”. He rushed upstairs and saw that the deceased was sprawling in the bath, his heels being two-thirds of the bath up, and his buttocks, which were not resting on the bath, were practically on a level with it. A rope, suspended from the water pipe, was round his neck. He undid the knot as quick as he could, having no knife, and got the deceased down. The police and Dr. Claxton arrived. The deceased had not, to his knowledge, threatened to take his life. The chair was by the side of the bath, having been moved from its usual position. It looked as if he must have stood on the chair to have tied the rope to the pipe, for he (witness) had to stand on it to untie the knot.

Dr. E. E. Claxton, of Manor Road, said he had attended the deceased for about two years, and for the last six months had been going to see him each week. He had been suffering from chrome bron­chitis and cardiac failure. He had got to know him very well. He always used to discuss the war with him (witness) and asked him what he thought of it. He always tried to give him an optimistic slant to it, and the deceased looked at it differently. He was undoubtedly a man to whom one could put the better side of things rather than the darker.

The Coroner: Might it considerably affect him if anyone had said to him that England had lost the war?

Witness: Yes. It would disturb him intensely. Witness, continuing, said he was called to the house at half-past five the previ­ous day. He was lying on the floor, and the policeman was giving artificial res­piration. Breathing had ceased and life was extinct. There was a mark on his neck suggesting strangulation. The face was suffused, bluey in colour. The cause of death was asphyxia, due to hanging.

The Coroner: His condition was such thatt when a foolish, or rather a wicked, person said such things as we have heard it would be liable to upset his mental balance.

Dr. Claxton: Yes.

“It does seem a very great pity”, the Coroner said in announcing his verdict, “that people should make such remarks as those we have heard, remarks which all particularly should not make at these times. Rather serious remarks were made to the deceased, which would un­fortunately affect a man in the condition such as the deceased was on the previ­ous day. I have no doubt that those people he had been talking to had, instead of putting forward a conversation that would have impressed him in a different way, had spoken in such a way that it had upset him. I find that the deceased died from hanging, and that the balance of his mind at the time he did it was temporarily disturbed”.

Folkestone Herald 1-6-1940

Inquest

Alarmist statements on the war were said at an inquest at the Town Hall on Tuesday afternoon to have been responsible for the death of Mr. Charles Baker, a retired marine store dealer of the Forester’s Arms, Shellons Street, who was found hanged the previous afternoon.

The Coroner, returning a verdict that the deceased hanged himself whilst the balance of-his mind was temporarily dis­turbed, said “I have no doubt that if those people he had been talking to had, instead of having an alarmist conversa­tion, had a conversation of a rather hap­pier type, the deceased would not have done what he did”.

Mrs. Mary Elizabeth Emma Baker, wife of the deceased, said her husband’s health had not been good lately and he had been attended by Dr. E.E. Claxton for some time He was 64 years of age. During the last two months he had been very worried with regard to the war.

The Coroner: When you say he had been worried principally about the war, what do you mean?

Witness: Yesterday he went out before lunch. When he came back he said he had been talking on the Leas to some­body and the idea played on his mind that we had lost the war.

Do you mean he seemed to be worried by what people had been saying to him? -Yes, definitely.

Has he at any time threatened to take his life? - Never. He is the last man I should ever have thought would have done such a thing.

Continuing, witness said she talked to her husband after lunch and then inter­viewed a visitor regarding a young evacuee. Later she went upstairs to dress. She went into the bathroom where she saw a chair in the middle of the room. She went to close the window and on glancing round saw her husband’s feet m the bath; he was in an upright sitting position. She went out to fetch her son-in-law and went back to the bathroom with him. She then noticed there was a rope round her husband`s neck, fastened to a water pipe over the bath. Her son-in-law untied the rope and took her husband down. Her husband was depressed about the last war. Yesterday he seemed more depressed than ever.

William Edwin Creasey, licensee of the Forester’s Arms, said he was Mr. Baker’s son-in-law. The deceased had been liv­ing with them for about nine years. His health had not been good for the last two years and he had not been himself. He used to sit about taking no notice of anything but thinking deeply. Yester­day he was more depressed than ever. He told witness that someone on the Leas had been talking to him about the war. He said they had told him that the Germans had rubber boats and could land thousands of men in England. For some time he had been very pessi­mistic about this country’s chances of winning the war. About 5 o'clock yesterday afternoon witness heard two screams, one appar­ently from his mother-in-law and an­other from his wife. He rushed indoors and his mother said “Quick, father is in the bath”. He rushed upstairs and found his father-in- law sprawled in the bath. A rope suspended from the water pipe was round his neck. Witness unfastened the knot as quickly as possible and at­tempted to revive the deceased. A chair, usually by the wash hand basin, was be­side the bath.        .

The water pipe was about eight feet six inches from the floor. The deceased must therefore have got on something to tie the rope round the pipe.

Dr. E.E. Claxton of Manor Road, Folkestone, said he had attended Mr. Baker for about two and a half years. During the last six months he had been going to see deceased each week. He had been suffering from chronic bronchitis and cardiac failure. Witness had got to know the deceased very well; they always used to discuss the news. Mr. Baker used to ask him what he thought of it and he used to try to give an optimistic slant to it. “He always took what one said very seriously and you could either leave him very cheerful or very despondent”, wit­ness added.

Coroner: I take it he was the sort of man one should always put the brighter side to, never the darker.

Witness: Undoubtedly.

So he would be considerably affected by someone who might tell him we had lost the war and the Germans were go­ing to land thousands here in rubber boats? - It would distress him intensely. It would also cloud his judgment.

Continuing, witness said he was called to deceased’s house yesterday at about 5.30 p.m. Mr. Baker was lying on the floor and a policeman was applying arti­ficial respiration. Mr. Baker was already dead. There was a mark on his neck suggest­ing strangulation. The face was also suffused. The cause of death was asphyxia due to hanging. Referring again to the conversation which deceased had had in the morning, Dr. Claxton said "If a wicked person said such things he would take it to heart and would not be clear in his judg­ment”.

The Coroner: It would be liable to up­set his mental balance?

Witness: Absolutely.

The Coroner said it seemed a very great pity that people should make such remarks when they were particularly asked not to make them and there was no occasion that they should be made. He returned a verdict as stated.

Folkestone Herald 24-4-1943

Local News

At Folkestone Police Court on Wednesday, music licences for radio installations were granted in respect of the Foresters’ Arms and the Star and Garter.

Alderman R.G. Wood pre­sided with Alderman J.W. Stainer, Mr. P. Fuller and Mr. P.V. Gurr.

 

Folkestone Herald 15-2-1964

Annual Licensing Sessions

Transfer of licence was granted for the following application: Foresters Arms, from Mr. W.E. Creasey to Mr. Alfred W. Hammond

Note: This does not appear in More Bastions

Folkestone Herald 24-6-1983

Advertising Feature

Anyone walking into the Red Cow pub in Foord Road after a few months` absence could be forgiven for wondering if they were in the right place For what before Christmas was a basic spit `n` sawdust local has been transformed into an attractive and elegant hostelry set to compete with some of the smartest places in town. The original public and saloon bars have been knocked into one and a special eating area has been set aside. In fact the whole pub has been modernised and improved, but with the installation of false beams and the carefully selected decor, the atmosphere is very much one of bygone days.

Landlord and landlady Geoff and Joan Biggs are delighted as are their regulars and an ever increasing number of new customers. But for them the virtual overnight transformation of the Red Cow marks the end of a long, long wait. Fourteen years ago the couple, who have been in the licensed trade since 1938, ran the old Foresters Arms in Shellons Street, Folkestone. It was a thriving business, regularly packed and serving umpteen lunches every day. But their success was short-lived. A compulsory purchase order forced them to move and they took over the Red Cow with high hopes of improving it. They made repeated requests to the brewery but it was 13 years before they got the go-ahead for their new-look pub. “People have to pay a lot of money for drinks these days. It is only right that they get something a little bit special in return”, says Geoff.

Folkestone Herald 9-9-1983

Local News

A pub landlord has died after a lifetime in the licensed trade. Mr. Geoffrey Biggs, landlord at the Red Cow in Folkestone`s Foord Road, died in the early hours of last Thursday, apparently from a heart attack. His death at the age of 63 came as a shock to his wife Joan, son Stephen, daughter Vicky and many friends. He had been a publican in the town for nearly 20 years. Mr. Biggs had been land­lord at the Red Cow for 15 years. Before taking over he was at the Foresters Arms in Shellons Street, Folkestone. He and his wife have wanted to improve the Red Cow since they first moved there and in June their dreams came true when modernisation work was completed. Well-known in the town, Mr. Biggs was heavily involved in the darts leagues. A funeral service takes place today at Hawkinge.